Is there a printing quality difference between the printers of UM range?

Elaup Getting started Level: 3 Points: 33
Posts: 21

Location: France Printers: Ultimaker Original+
Posted by
Elaup

Posted Sep 11, 2017 - 7:07 AM   Question

Hi there!

I have to warn you this may be a newbie question! Is there a printing quality difference between the printers of the Ultimaker range? The resolution is the quite same for all the models but are the latest printers more accurate and reliable?

This because I'm considering to upgrade my current UMO+ with an UM2+ or an UM3. I'm very pleased with the machine, I think it does great work, but I need to print parts quite quickly and I'm experiencing some aesthetic defects like irregular stripes when I decrease the quality (I asume it is normal as it is called "draft" or "coarse").

With the equivalent settings, would the overall printing quality be better with an UM2+ or an UM3. ANd is there a big difference between these two models?

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience!

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M
mariuszem 3D printing enthusiast Level: 16 Points: 220
Posts: 32
Location: Wroclaw, Poland Printers: Ultimaker 2, Ultimaker Original, Ultimaker Original+, Ultimaker 2+
Posted by
M
mariuszem

Posted Sep 13, 2017 - 9:14 AM

To be honest, I do have UMO with HB (but not "+" one). I do have Ultimaker 2 and Ultimaker 2+. I've seen UM3 prints. Best is old UMO. It prints faster with great quality. It's like that when I use recommended Cura presets. But UMO can go faster than presets with super quality.

When I use my UMO settings, UM2(+) prints a bit slower and quality is rather poor.

Elaup Getting started Level: 3 Points: 33
Posts: 21
Location: France Printers: Ultimaker Original+
Posted by
Elaup

Posted Sep 13, 2017 - 10:26 AM

Thanks a lot for this reply, that's very good to know !

I have to say I'm quite surprised to read this. I expected that the fact that it is manually assembled by the user could have an impact on the accuracy, but it seems like it's not the case?

I also thought that the UM2+, with its several nozzles, was somehow designed for efficiency. What's the purpose of this otherwise?

Thanks again!

T
tommyph1208 Feel free to ask me Level: 37 Points: 1150
Posts: 586
Location: Horsens, Denmark Printers: Ultimaker Original
Posted by
T
tommyph1208

Posted Sep 14, 2017 - 3:11 AM • Edited 3:16 AM

Quote by Elaup

Thanks a lot for this reply, that's very good to know !

I have to say I'm quite surprised to read this. I expected that the fact that it is manually assembled by the user could have an impact on the accuracy, but it seems like it's not the case?

I also thought that the UM2+, with its several nozzles, was somehow designed for efficiency. What's the purpose of this otherwise?

Thanks again!

While the UMO is manually assembled by the user, the actual design is not much different from the new models... Sure, they use some fancier materials (like the frosted  plastic stuff in the sides and dibond frames) with a higher WAF, but in the end its just panels put together in a box shape, and some axis, pulleys, belts and motors fitted to them... There is no reason to think that you wouldn't be able to put your own machine together just as well as an Ultimaker employee, after all, you only have to assemble that one machine, and can take your time.

The UMO is a wonderful and very sturdy machine, with great support to be found in the community and options for a wide variety of modifcations (I should know, I did quite a few myself).

I do think, some of those modifications are needed if you want to print with more exotic materials, but the machine will still end up being much cheaper than the newer models.

Now, when it comes to the UM3 (which is also the most expensive) there are quite a few changes like the dual extrusion head with the quick swap printcores.

It is totally possible to mod an UMO to dual extrusion using eg. some of E3Ds designs, but obviously it requires some effort.

Elaup Getting started Level: 3 Points: 33
Posts: 21
Location: France Printers: Ultimaker Original+
Posted by
Elaup

Posted Sep 14, 2017 - 5:48 AM

Thank you for these very helpful explanations Tommyph1208!

About the multiple nozzles of the UM2+, do you think that the same results could be obtained with an UMO+ just by changing the nozzle?

neotko Moderator Points: 10340
Posts: 4532
Location: Madrid, Spain Printers: Ultimaker Original+, Ultimaker 3
Posted by
neotko

Posted Sep 14, 2017 - 6:57 AM • Edited 7:00 AM

Quote by Elaup

Thank you for these very helpful explanations Tommyph1208!

About the multiple nozzles of the UM2+, do you think that the same results could be obtained with an UMO+ just by changing the nozzle?

The um2+ hotend it’s much better than the umo hotend, in terms of leaks, temperature and precision.

Also a umo+ comes with mxl belt/pulleys that are quite bad IMO.

But indeed a umo+ can print super nicely.

- Basic mods:

GT2 belt/pulleys (aliexpress robotdigg sells decent ones, google mxl gt2 ultimaker for the post about it)

- um2 + hotend. And for um2+ you could buy the um2+ upgrade kit that comes with extruder, hotend and all ready to plug, or you can buy the parts at any reseller/distrutor that has stock to just get the hotend in parts and the other key parts other place).

- Beyond neotko/gudo slideblocks. That could even allow to use the whole print area when combined with the longer um2 central shafts (easy to buy even at igus for real good quality).

Umo hotend ptfe coupler last very short (50-200 print hours) but TFM um2+ coupler last 2000h (and for me much more than that).

You can make a umo+ print much better than a um2, but it takes time, learning and many spools. For me was really worth.

Ofc um2+ frame while is just a frame has one advantage, the weight and low vibrations of metal vs wood. It’s really important? Well, depends how fast you want to print.

The ultimaker frame imo could be better, for example gudo and I are starting to mod our orinter to use corexy rails with a better (modern) duet3d board to improve quality and precision. So, the good thing of any um is that you can mod it to make it better. But also, there are other diy printers out there that are quite nice. I been trsting the east3dgecko, and even with his bad clone hotend they do deliver amazing quality at high speeds just because they did a sturdy frame with corexy system on rails.

T
tommyph1208 Feel free to ask me Level: 37 Points: 1150
Posts: 586
Location: Horsens, Denmark Printers: Ultimaker Original
Posted by
T
tommyph1208

Posted Sep 15, 2017 - 4:38 AM • Edited 4:38 AM

Quote by Elaup

Thank you for these very helpful explanations Tommyph1208!

About the multiple nozzles of the UM2+, do you think that the same results could be obtained with an UMO+ just by changing the nozzle?

I would go for a different hotend as neotko also mentions below... Whether that should be the UM2 one as he suggests, I'm not so sure... I've been using E3D myself for a long time and they make a wide variety of super nice hotends and a shit-load of different sized nozzles in different materials.... everything you could ever want or need.

neotko Moderator Points: 10340
Posts: 4532
Location: Madrid, Spain Printers: Ultimaker Original+, Ultimaker 3
Posted by
neotko

Posted Sep 15, 2017 - 4:55 AM

Quote by tommyph1208

I would go for a different hotend as neotko also mentions below... Whether that should be the UM2 one as he suggests, I'm not so sure... I've been using E3D myself for a long time and they make a wide variety of super nice hotends and a shit-load of different sized nozzles in different materials.... everything you could ever want or need.

Yea been using a E3D with ptfe liner (and clone one so quality it's so-so) for a short period of time, but the main issues I see with the e3d hotend are absolutely fixed by using a proper heater and pt100 sensor like any UMO+/UM2 allows.

Indeed they offer a wide variety of hotends and specially hightemperatures, but production wise, if the user really needs to change nozzles periodically it's a mess since you have a 3 components hotend, heater, barrel, heatsink. With the um2+ (thanks to olsson) the nozzle swap it's quite painless but most important it doesn't degrade the heater block, with the E3D aluminium if you overtight, or just change nozzles often, the aluminium thread suffer to the point that you need a new heater block, and even when they ain't expensive maintenance it's one (for me) of the important time consumers. So I try to focus on components that I can get many hours without having to replace, fix, or clean.

Ofc if you get a E3D and learn to tune everything I'm sure it can work, in 3D printing the most important part it's the user, any printer can print slow, but to get production and quality with good hardware the part that makes everything shine it's the user (slicer, temperature control, good flat glass, keep the printer lubricated and clean, etcetcetc).

About E3D and 2.85 (I use 1.75 on all my machines with modded hardware) I always do hear clog histories, but maybe that's something of the past and they have all nice and working. But as a side note, E3D officially removed the E3D+Titan upgrade kit for UM2 because they had to use too much time on support, and that CANT be a good sign But again, any experienced user can make most stuff work, but as a new user it's hard to get on hardware that needs more tuning.

When I started I did use the printer as it was, then from that base and after finding the limits of the machine started to install mods, change the feeder for example was a key improvement and belts, and hotend. Ofc I have more mods, but they are just to fine tune the print as much as possible.

M
mariuszem 3D printing enthusiast Level: 16 Points: 220
Posts: 32
Location: Wroclaw, Poland Printers: Ultimaker 2, Ultimaker Original, Ultimaker Original+, Ultimaker 2+
Posted by
M
mariuszem

Posted Sep 15, 2017 - 9:24 AM

I do use UMO with different nozzles and it is same as on my UM2+/UM2 with Solex/Olson Block.

To be honest, on UMO you need to change belts to GT2 for sure. Also steppers changed to TMC2100 is a good idea if you have UMO w/HBK not "+". Than you can print well.

About Termo K vs PT100... sure, PT100 is way better, but I haven't got any problems becouse of that. I do use original with it's original nozzles and hotend since 2011 (or '12) successfully.

I use Ultimakers for professional work. I also teach 3D printing in schools. Mostly I use UMO/UMO+ in schools. All my UM2+ and my old UM2 at work are in use, but I was really dissapointed when bought them (comparing to UMO).

Summing up - at work, when 3D printing job is going to be done, 1st printer I use are UMOs, than, if UMOs are busy I use UM2+es, last one in queue is UM2 (w/Olson Block).

Elaup Getting started Level: 3 Points: 33
Posts: 21
Location: France Printers: Ultimaker Original+
Posted by
Elaup

Posted Sep 15, 2017 - 10:48 AM • Edited  Sep 18, 2017 - 10:46 AM

Thanks a lot for all these feedbacks! Always much appreciated.

To summarize I'll keep in mind that UMO+ can reach similar quality levels than the upper models provided that some adjustments are made. So for the quite inexperienced user I am, UM2+ may be a better choice. So I can rely on its technology without much worries.

That said, I don't regret at all to have started with an UMO+. I was completely unfamiliar with FDM printing and this enabled me to understand a lot about it, and more importantly, it made me want to use it even more!

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